Here's the setup [lots of good audio principles]

[lpugfan2004]

the bass boost is set to on and the gain is at half

the crossover is: well i think its set to high pass but the button has been broken off.... so i need to replace the switch to fix that.... ill get that fixed sometime this week ill just leave it alone i guess til its done..

and the settings for the High pass and low pass is set to half way

[MartinGouda]

if it's on highpass then you are fucked.. you want low pass...

[lpugfan2004]

ok... got the switch fixed set it to low pass set it to around 70% gain and it sounds beautiful only thing left to do is to put that big ground on there im also thinking about running the 2 guage all the way from the battery to the amp and putting the fuse holder in the trunk as you suggested just need a couple connectors and the right tools which ill have to wait til dad comes home next to finish all of that, i would just not use the connectors as u suggested BUT the connection on the amp is old and it doesnt look like it can hold the wire in there also the screws are a bit stripped so it would hard to hold the wire down

what size cap do u think i should get AND should i up my fuse size or is the AGU 60A plenty?

~Matt

[lpugfan2004]

bump?!

[PuffNStuff]

Ok i reread this and.... wow. I am not schooled and i cant be schooled no more by my riends. I am putting in 2 12" kicker subs in the back behind the rear seats and i am putting all this info to GREAT use.

[lpugfan2004]

ive got an 800 wat 2 ch bridgable pioneer amp for sale

and his info is great my system hits so hard now and i love it

[MartinGouda]

i'm glad i could help guys....

sorry i didn't see the cap question earlyer...


rule of thumb on this one...

!!!! every 500w RMS needs about 0.5 farads of cap. !!!!!


but it usualy helps alot more if you go .5 over your needs. on your system i think .5 would suffice but i'd rock a 1 farad cap if i wanted to stiffen up the bass and make for some punchy lows. realisticaly caps are almost NEVER nessessary on cars that have a single amp and run less than 500 rms total but once you get over 1000w rms they start helping alot more. the biggest trick to them is finding which will increase your amps avalible power with out beccoming a pain in the ass or an overly expencive unit.

digital caps are pretty nice and sometimes allow for warnings or even shut off's at low voltage but if your install is going to be super clean you should think about hiding your caps anyways as they are typicaly ugly and wastes of space, however if you must show it off then the digital display does have a pimp factor attached.

when fucking around with a cap never play games, they can kill you... really. be carefull with a fully charged cap.

so for you i'd grab this.. it's pimp looking and cheap and with your system putting down about 500 rms on the regular you would be looking at about a .5 farad cap and to give you head room to about 1000ws this cap will let you grow a bit more with your system.... also keep in mind that you can run more than one cap when you need to so a second one bridged in with proper cap plates could help if you ever choose to go north of 1000w's (which i don't recomend in a celica at all, if you can't get eh sound you want with a single cap in a two door you are doing something wrong)

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9FbmKBx...25&I=120PP912U
buy that and install it within a foot of your amp and tell me how it goes. if you tell me that there is a big diffrence i'll think you are a liar. keep in mind, caps are for improving already great systems and like high grade wiring and proper fusing they don't often alter the sound as much as ensure that your system will preform as you want it to all the time.

[MartinGouda]

about RCA cables.....


car audio RCA cables are often refered to as "PATCH CABLES" they bridge the gap between your stereo head unit and your amplifiers by carrying the audio signal from one to the other. however to make your life easier the nicer sets typically include a single low gauge wire that separates the left and right signals to reduce noise transfer from cable to cable and to allow you to run a cable from your stereo's "REMOTE" wire to the amplifiers acc port. so the amplifiers will be turned off when the deck is turned off.

some stereos give multiple options on outputs and choosing which one to use really depends on the number of amps and the audio tuning abilities of your stereo.

a typical car modder will add a sub or two in the trunk for the sake of increasing bass response and the depth of sound on a car. this would typical be driven by a single mono amp that will best be fed by an after market stereo that has a "SUB OUT" channel. in most cases if your stereo offers a "SUB OUT" channel you will be allowed to control the out put level of that channel from the stereo it's self which will allow for a kind of remote control over your subs output independently from the rest of the stereo setup being driven by the internal amp of the head unit.

once you find that this setup is no longer blowing away your ears you may want to step up the stereos original components and feed them some more juice. if you spent some good cash on the head unit you may find that it has a lot more outputs, some will have front right, front left rear right and rear left, then others will also have center speaker outputs and more.these are typically sent to amps of their own and then your head unit will only have to work as a signal processor instead of an amplifier. this will allow for more power to be sent to the system components and with the use of proper crossover and tweeter placement you should be able to find some significant changes in audio from the high notes right to the lows while the subs fill in the bass.

when running your rca cables you will find that the best way to go is under the carpet in the celica but it's a good idea to keep them a foot or more away from your power cables when being run through the car, keeping all your cables together creates noise in the signals even with the rubber surrounds on the cables.

[Pineapple]

Here is something about cap, short version: don't waste your money, they don't work:

After studying a little history on large 1 Farad capacitors in car audio, you'd be amazed that they even sell at all. How useful are they? What do they really do? Will a Cap 'improve' my sound quality? Will it Prevent my lights from dimming? Will it audibly affect my audio system in any way?

Before you get the truth to any of the above questions, chances are, you've probably spent $100 or more on one of these devices. However, let's study a little history regarding this issue.

A long time ago, in a land far away, 2 elves...Ok, Richard Clark & Wayne Harris (Carsound magazine and the inventor of DB Drag, respectively) separately came up with a solution to preventing their lights from dimming.

WHO WERE THESE GUYZ?

As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )

Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).

Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.

As you may know, amplifiers are made up a bank of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.

Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.

Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board. However, what did this really accomplish? Let's start here:

WHAT IS A CAPACITOR?

Basically, capacitors are an energy storage device. Large, 1 Farad or more
capacitors store energy (electrons) between their plates. Capacitors differ
from batteries because batteries store energy in the form of chemical
energy--and rely on acid and lead plates, as the place of storage. For a more detailed
description of a capacitor, go here:

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm

Then on the right hand side, scroll down to CAPACITOR. Keep in mind the use
of capacitors in an audio system.

WHY DO PEOPLE BUY CAPACITORS?

The number 1 reason would have to be because their lights dim when their
system is playing HARD. In car audio, we are told that a capacitor is
designed to prevent the voltage drop associated with your lights dimming.
The number2 reason is that it is rumored to 'improve' sound quality or
'stiffen' the power supply/source.

WHY DO MY LIGHTS DIM?

Headlights brightness is in direct proportion to the source voltage. For
instance, if your car is running, system voltage is ~12.5 -14.4 VOLTS. Your
lights will be much brighter than when your car is turned off--where battery
voltage is ~12V. Most car alternators put out between 75 to 120 amps of
current. When this current draw threshold of the charging system is
exceeded, system voltage will drop as power demands are now shared by the
alternator and the storage devices (battery & cap). We are using battery
reserves beyond this point until the demand lessens

When playing your system really hard. Your lights dim because your
alternator can't keep up it's charging voltage (around 13.5V) and therefore,
demand exceeds output. When this happens, your electronic devices are
dipping into the power storage of the battery. Since the battery stores
power at ~ 12-12.5V, there is a 1.3 to 1.8V drop in voltage available. This
in turn is why your lights dim down.

HOW MUCH POWER DOES A CAPACITOR STORE?

1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second
850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads

For storage purposes, you'd need ~2,200 1 Farad capacitors to equal the energy of your battery.

Due to its impedence (ESR & ESL), a cap's energy is only 50% available. What's worse, is that in order for a 1 Farad cap to discharge, first the alternator output must have maxed out, and the voltage must have dropped around 1.5 volts. But I thought a cap was supposed to prevent that (voltage drop)!!!!!????? Yep, you got the point.


IF A BATTERY = 2,200 CAPS, THEN WHY BUY A (PUNY) CAP?

My question exactly. Marketing is the reason why people buy caps. In many cases, upgrading wiring will help your system get the maximum transfer of current. Once that has been reached, adding a capacitor may have a minor effect on your system. 50W over the course of a second is not a lot of power considering an amplifier may draw 2000W to put out 1400 watts. Let's look at the situation from a resources standpoint.

Alternator 80 amps
Car accessories (minus stereo) 40 amps
A large Car Audio system (DRAWS ) ~200 amps AT FULL OUTPUT

In this case, you have 240 amps of draw, but only 80 amps of current from the alternator. In your case, you need 160 amps x 12 volts or or let's say 1920 watts of energy. Since a cap stores 50W, how much of a difference do you think it's going to make? A cap is basically a peashooter. W+e need a Howitzer cannon here, to do the job well.

Also, Once a cap is discharged, where does it get it's power from? The alternator, which is already overloaded. Once a cap is discharged, it's worthless. Like SWEZ says, ・.The cap already shot its wad, an does limp til recharged・ I知 not so certain I will allow him to babysit my kids, but you get the drift. (I never said it quiet like that... and oh...I'm great with kids!)

SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

1. Audio Jewelry- impress chicks with large cylindrical shiny thingy
2. Extra weight in winter time
3. A very POOR... BUT expensive distribution block
4. A projectile in the event of a crash
5. Rolling pin--for cooking purposes
6. A neat thing to tell your friend, "..Hey man, lick the top of this..


Please do not try # 6. New hairstyles are always refreshing, but if you are wearing railroad tracks across your teeth, you might have one big filling after it痴 over.

HOW CAN CAPACITORS IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY?

They can't. Sound quality is not dependant upon the presence of large bulky 1 Farad capacitors. How many 1 Farad Capacitors do you think the Boston Pops, Aerosmith, or Snoop dog use in the recording studio?

IN A NUTSHELL.......

When Richard, our fearless inventor, became World renown for winning every competition under the sun, people began copying what he did. Soon, every 'serious' competitor had a 'stiffening' capacitor--not to be confused with the 'loosening' capacitor.

WHY?

In the late 80s, people began sticking out their tongue when dunking the basketball because Michael Jordan did. Did sticking out your tongue improve your dunking ability? Same here with adding a capacitor to your electrical system.

STILL A GLUTTON FOR MORE PUNISHMENT?

Here's the Original Cap Debate.

http://www.carsound.com/ubb/Archive...6-1-000307.html

Phoenix Gold's marketing guru had just posted information on how their Powercore (basically the Alumapro CAP15 in a Phoenix shell) had both stabilized their voltage and improved the sound quality. Richard called him on it (all in another post) and the marketing geek was unable to quantify any of the conditions that resulted in the voltage being HELD at 14.2V and the 'improved' sound quality.

Please do not read every stinking post as valid. There are a lot of people that have had the efficacy of capacitors inbred to their minds, and were not (and still not) convinced in the futility of a 1 Farad storage device.

In a final note, Richard relayed a quote regarding battcaps ( battcap.net ) as, "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." when referring to the product. This also relates to most digital readout capacitors, and I wish my Archie Bunker skills could have said it better myself.

http://www.caround.com/UBB/ultimateb...=022965#000000

guys---------the physics of how caps work and how they could be beneficial hasn't changed--------what has changed is that 10 years ago caps were simple two terminal devices designed by electrical engineers for certain well understood specifications-------today "car audio" caps are complex, eye pleasing devices designed by "markineers"---------looks before function--------an example--------last week i recieved several caps from a large accesory company interested in marketing a "new" cap----------along with their prototype they sent a few of their competitors products so i could compare them--------sort of what we call benchmarking---------two of the caps were a couple of the "hybrid" type-------the packaging claims a combination of electrolitic and carbon type for the ultimate conbination-------these things had chrome cases similar to amplifiers, had colored plexi and built in distro blocks, real pieces of art!!!!----------NOW-------for those of you that understand the basics you should know that no matter how big a cap is if it is gonna help a system in any way it must have low impedance--------impedance of a cap is no different than a speaker-------- the impedance number is the lumped values of ESR and ESL---------anyone that doesn't understand this should find my long multipage cap thread of 4 years ago and study it--------ten years ago i set a couple "standards" that have been thrown around ever since------the first was "a farad per killowat" and the other was " a caps impedance (combination of esl/esr) should be less than a milliohm"-------if you have ever heard either of these statements they came from me first back in 1989----------now for 2004-------- of the 5 caps i tested only 2 would stand a chance to benefit a system-------the impedance of the 3 electrolitics (all 1 Farad) ranged from .0007 to .002---------and of the super "hybrid" units the 10 farad measured .004 and the superduper 35 farad measured .02--------later i will have Brian post the actual measurements and later i will explain how the relatively simple test works----------really i can't understand how an entire industry can be so duped into buying what is probably millions of dollars of blue sky--------it would seem that there would be at least one honest magazine that could place technical excellence over ad dollars but i guess not-----------i know the marketing guys hate me when i call BS on their nonsense so i'm willing to make a offer----------ANYBODY come show me how one of these pieces of junk can actually help the power demands of a 12v system and i promise to go to IRAQ and stand in the center of Baghdad and curse Allah..............RC

BTW the links may not work because it was long time ago.

[MartinGouda]

i disagree, i see a point in caps and voltage stabilizers and ground systems, i just don't put as much value on them as they are given by the industry

[Pineapple]

Somewhere in those post is a comparison of the electrical wave form, voltage and current, in a system with and without cap. The cap did nothing when the bass hit. It does help smooth the power at much lower power level. The cap just don't store enough power.
If anyone looking for a cap for better bass, it's not helping. Also it doesn't help with light dimming.
On the other hand bigger wire and alternator will help in both.

I don't know how well those "voltage stabilizers" works. Those with bunch of caps only, won't do much. If a 1F cap can't help, those small one in the stabilizer not gonna do anything. An active stabilizer which regulate voltage will do wonder but costly.

[89celica]

Wow this is an old post, but I have always loved my car audio. Just thought I would reinforce Martin's opinion on grounds. The ground is the most important part of any electrical connection in DC systems because current runs from negative to positive. Re: Direction of electrical current & fuses, definition of 'ground'

[irving216]

this martin dudes like the audio mad scientist lmao

[mikecole89]

Originally Posted by Pineapple

If only the amp cut off and not the whole car, you're overheating/overloading the amp. Got nothing to do with battery or alternator. Also capacitors are a waste of money. Get big wires, higher output alternator and more batteries.

your reply = fail...(its not all fail just about over loading the amp, it would go into protect
)

his electrical could not keep up with the current being pulled..if he had a stock alternator 70amp? and a battery that was complete shit. basically it was draining the battery..same concept as playing your system at full tilt with the car off, it will cut out. personally i think capacitors are ghey. im running 2 saz 3000ds and 2 dc level 5 12"s a xsower 2400 for starting battery and 2 3100's for the amps with a 300 amp alternator and the big 3 done and i have no problems and lights never dim with 6k+ rms being pulled.