Need to convert my 86 GTS from R12 to R13

[Teh.Jakez0r]

Hey guys,
Does anyone have any advice as to the best way to update the air conditioning in my car?
I've got an 86 GT-S with R12, and I wanted to convert it to R13, simply because i don't want to find an AC specialist and pay the premium for R12.
If anyone knows of any kits i can snag online, or a decent DIY instruction & parts list, i'd be very greatful
Thanks!
Jake

[CelicaGTSboy23]

hey there, are you looking at going from the old r124 to the new r134a? you may need to change the piping. not sure what material your current a/c system is made from. other than that, there should be a conversion swap for it with out havin to go to a specialist.

[kiasis]

I'm no expert, but have talked to a couple repair shops about this, as I was considering the same. For starters, I can't find any mechanic who thinks the 134a is better in terms of cooling. And if your system is in good shape, you're not leaking CFC's into the atmosphere. In other words, if it ain't busted, don't fix it. That's the story I got.

If you do decide to swap it over, I know you have to replace all gaskets, o-rings and seals, as the 134a is not compatible w/ the R12 and will chew up the rubber parts. You also have to run a cleaner agent through the system to remove all traces of the R12 or else the 134a will 'sludge-up.' Then you're replacing the compressor - not cheap. I don't know the name of the cleaning agent, but your local AC shop (if they're not dicks) should be helpful. I'm not sure if changing out the drier is required. I recall someone telling me you can't clean the R12 out of it, but another shop not mentioning it as part of the swap over.

I don't know of a kit, but check out RockAuto.com and see what they have or price the individual parts I mention above. However, I'm not sure how you'll evacuate the R12 safely at home. And, at least where I am, only a State-certified shop can work w/ R12 and has lots of specialty equipment not available for the DIY to purchase.

I got quoted about $250-$300 for the change over and system charge. However, I'm in Sacramento, CA and everything around here is more expensive.

Hey, were in Western Mass? I grew up in Maine and did a year at Northfield Mount Hermon. You anywhere around that? I miss W Mass. Gorgeous country.

[Teh.Jakez0r]

Yea, it'll be too much of a hassle to convert it.

I live in western mass btw, just above amherst.
We played NMH in lax last year =P

[kiasis]

Yeah, that was my conclusion, too. If/when I need major AC work done anyway... but not until then. Plus, when everyone told me the old R12 was colder and I have a black leather interior in central California.....

Cool, you know NMH. It was a while ago, but I've got great memories of that place. I played hockey there. Used to be a covered arena, but open on the sides. They had huge mats or something hanging down to break the wind. Do you know if the ever built a totally indoor arena? That rink was friggin' cold, especially when we were doing the two-a-day practices pre-season and over X-mas break so the first one was early in the morning. That's some damn good hockey around there. I got to play against a bunch of guys who went on to the pros (not me). I recall the lax being pretty intense, too. Did you play at NMH or your school? The lax field was down behind my dorm and the hockey guys and lax guys always backed each other.

[Rick89GTS]

I'm trying to fix the AC in my 86GTS also but I have to replace a hose and the compressor. Good info on this thread. I'll post up with anything I find out.

[kiasis]

I've been doing a bit more reading of AllData TSBs (etc). The R12 issue is federal, not just CA, which means you won't be able to recharge a R12 system, DIY. You can replace all the parts and have a shop do an R12 recharge, or you can do the entire conversion (may be better w/ a new compressor going in anyways) and then have the ability to do everything R134a from here on out. Good luck and yeah, educate the rest of us when you're done:)

[kiasis]

I'd like to amend my earlier comments, along w/ any necessary apologies for swaying folks one way or the other. I've been doing a bit more web research and came across the following links:
Automotive Air Conditioning Conversion to R134a
R-12 retrofit
Convert your automotive air conditioner from R-12 to R-134 Refrigerant.
AC Refregerant R12 to R-134A?

These pages suggest that a lot of what I've been told by AC shops may be more driven by profit than truth. Perhaps the conversion is much simplier than I was led to believe.

I suggest doing your own search (I used Google) and seeing what comes up. There is definitely some confusion out there. Earlier pages talk about changing compressors, driers, lines, o-rings, seals, etc. Later pages talk only changing driers. More recent pages talk mostly about making sure you have a good shop do the evacuation of the old R-12 (and possibly lubricant oil) and then you should be good to go w/ the relatively cheap ($25-100) conversion kits that appear quite easy to DIY.

Good luck and keep us all posted. I know many folks will benefit from whatever you find out.

[Rick89GTS]

Well, it looks like R-134a will be phased out soon too. Something about ozone, CFC's or some other enviro threat it poses.

[Teh.Jakez0r]

I didn't go to NMH, I only played there a couple times, so i have no idea about the indoor arena. Sorry =P

So here's the final word on my R12 situation!!

we have an old 85 grand marquee that is also on R12 that i brought to a shop in ludlow mass, and had them capture the R12 out of. They then proceeded to convert the grand marquee to R134a, and put the R12 in my celica...I can get condensation to build up inside the car = ]

P.S. smaller imports tend to have a weaker AC system then larger American luxury cars. R12 is more efficient than R134a, so converting the grand marquee required different fittings, and a slightly beefier compressor.

To convert the celica, i would need to do a lot more work.

Needless to say I'm real happy with my descision.

He did the entire job for the left over R12 in the grand marquee.

[dups90gt]

ok, I just had my AC fixed last year at around this time, they replaced almost everything compressor, condenser, radiator etc... is short it cost me $1700 and change. It was already converted to R134a, the AC is not as cold as I'd like it to be, I have to have the vents pointed at me on hot days. I noticed that it couldn't cope the other day when 3 people were in my car. I cant do jack now coz I had it done last year.. I read this on the crappy tire website and it's fairly cheap and works with R12 and R134a but has anyone heard about this? Its suppose to run cooler and more efficient, for $50 not bad , I'm just afraid that if i switch over I might bust something or something may get clogged the my AC won't work and its $1700 down the drain..

here's the link:
Canadian Tire

[Teh.Jakez0r]

My guess is that it's basically propane, (hence no needed lisense, works in both systems)
Propane still has the cooling effects, but it's outrageously dangerous.

[hl2k3]

buh?!

[dups90gt]

Originally Posted by Teh.Jakez0r

My guess is that it's basically propane, (hence no needed lisense, works in both systems)
Propane still has the cooling effects, but it's outrageously dangerous.

????

[Rick89GTS]

^I guess you're talking about the Red-Tek Stuff.
Some ppl have used it it with success, seems to work pretty good.
Haven't heard any horror stories about car crashes and it blowing up or catching fire yet either but the jury is still out....

[dups90gt]

Yeah it is, im wondering if i should convert or.. use the 'if it ain't broken don't fix it' mentality?

[Rick89GTS]

If it's working, leave it alone!